Waterman largely reflected Denver Snuffer’s work, so if Snuffer’s excommunication was wrong, then Waterman’s is absolutely insane (I think it was).
Not that you need this, but here’s the link to the Calderwoods’ Mormon Stories podcast: http://mormonstories.org/marisa-and-carson-calderwood-discuss-their-excommunication/ …
The media should have covered this. Peggy should have covered this. Thank goodness for Mormon Stories, even though Dehlin can be unfair to the church. And even if just one side is represented.
P2: I will listen to the episode.
P1: It was good to meet the Calderwood’s, Waterman and Snuffer — and Kelly and Dehlin — at the Sunstone Symposium.
It seemed like Rock is a little off his rocker, and wanted excommunication. I am assuming that at least Dehlin and Kelly did, too, because they basically said that in a panel. But doesn’t mean they should have (especially Rock).
I bet we see Kristy Money and/or Chelsea Shields go soon. Kristy already had her temple recommend removed for sitting on the Ordain Women board. Chelsea went public in telling a reporter that her TEDx talk criticizing the church on women could get her excommunicated. Even if she or whomever wants it, the fact that it happens just speaks to the cultish nature of the church.
P2: Interesting. … What if there were an anonymous blog? That chronicles some of this crazy stuff.
P1: There is this “anonymous bishop” blog: http://anonymousbishop.com/
P2: Interesting. I feel like that’s what would happen if I was somehow called as bishop.
P1: I mean, the Calderwoods, Snuffer and Waterman all got excommunicated (and several other disciplined at least last year, when media covered it: http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/58089335-78/church-leaders-local-bishop.html.csp …). But then Peggy, who has reported on the church for years (some say in a biased way particularly on her blog), has never faced discipline, as she’s an active member. Or Doug Fabrizio. Or scholars like Richard Bushman, Armand Mauss and Philip Barlow. (Probably because it would be a PR nightmare to ex a journalist or scholar who must think very critically but remains faithful.)
P2: That’s true. They are probably on a whitelist as long as they stay “active.”
P1: I mean, one guy was disciplined for this: http://in200wordsorless.blogspot.com/2015/06/anonymous-bishop.html …
…but not excommunciated, even though the level of criticism was the same as Snuffer’s. So I just say it depends upon the person holding the stake president or bishop position.
So a “special report,” maybe, because it was an unconventional story arising out of unique circumstances.
P2: I read one of the posts he linked to, the Truman show one. Do you know that the church has a collection of all the myths and folklore? So if someone contacts church headquarters they can confirm or deny if the story is verified. I would love to get ahold of that file.
P1: Do you know who at headquarters you need to ask for and talk to about verifying a story?
P2: Unfortunately, no. I met a couple on my mission that was assigned to maintain the file when they were serving on the Temple Square mission.
P1: The story from last year about disciplinary actions mentioned that people who posted an Ordain Women profile did face disciplinary action and were put on informal probation.
This is what is said in the Trib article about disciplinary action about the “200 Words or Less” blog: “Will Carter of Indio, Calif., was excommunicated in April after his blog, In 200 Words or Less, and conversations with fellow Mormons led his bishop to accuse him of apostasy. Carter said in an interview that he openly wondered how the church could better help those whose testimonies were rocked by information found on the internet and he openly spoke about one of Snuffer’s books, which he found ‘positively inspiring and truth-filled.’ His bishop’s idea, he said, ‘was for me to shut up, to not tell anybody.'”
P2: If the church doesn’t make room for doubters and critics, they will force most of them to simply leave. Unfortunately, how many leaders and active members probably want all unorthodox members to take a hike? Too many.
…and there are not enough savvy people to take a middle ground stand, so I just see the problem continuing until there are critical thinkers who are out, blind faith people who are in, and the choice few thoughtful folks who understand that a middle ground can be taken.
And don’t know how the problem won’t continue because the leaders aren’t held accountable if the excommunications/disciplines are not made known to the public, unless Dehlin can catch all of them and his podcast grows in popularity. Because the media seems to be done covering them. I know that Peggy is because I emailed her twice about covering Waterman’s and the Calderwood’s, at least. She replied that she is not going to cover them. And I haven’t seen anything from Fabrizio on discipline, either, since last year.
P1: I pleaded for Peggy to cover Waterman’s and the Calderwood’s. I emailed her twice about it. I was grateful for her response, but disappointed. So go Mormon Stories.
Another thing on the excommunications: Seems like L. Whitney Clayton was directly involved in the excommunications of Dehlin, Kelly and Snuffer, since he probably contacted each of their leaders directly.
So he needs to go. Or the apostles need to not have a whipping boy. Or if Clayton’s efforts came through the Strengthening the Members Committee, then an overdue change is needed there in getting rid of it.